Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: You are listening to the Freight Buyers Club, a home for those interested in international trade, shipping, procurement, logistics and air freight. In fact, all things supply chain in the Americas, Asia and beyond. This podcast is brought to you by your host Mike King and produced in partnership with Demurco Express Group, a global 3 PL that specializes in managing logistics to, from and within the Asia Pacific region.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: Thanks to our sponsor Democo Express Group for supporting this episode of the Freight Buyers Club. And welcome back one and all. I'm Mike King and today we're diving into the shifting sands of US Trade policy, container chaos and what happens next. You'll be hearing from one of the biggest carriers on the Trans Pacific. I'll be talking to a long time SME shipper with strong views and you'll get insight from one of the sharpest journalists covering U.S. supply chains. We'll also be examining the chaos that has ensued in freight markets since Liberation Day. What has been going on with container rates, why one of the biggest US Railroads is looking to buy a rival, and what the one big beautiful act means for the future of logistics, shipping and air cargo. So plenty going on today, but first some context, particularly on that critical trade from asia to the US April 2nd Tariffageddon or as Trump called it, Liberation Day.
A 10% universal import tariff with extra duties for some countries up to 50% tariffs came into force April 5.
Then came the backpedal. Most of those country specific tariffs paused for 90 days unless you were China Q Panic Q Paperwork Coup panic again. By mid May China also got a 90 day truce which triggered a massive import sedge. Then July 8 came and went no action. Deadline shifted to August 1 for most, August 12 for China cue more confusion. And on top of that, it's worth noting that reciprocal tariffs are just one element of this new protectionist trade wall around US market that US buyers are paying for. Lest us not forget pharma, steel, automotive all hit by sector specific duties. Additional Section 2 through 2 investigations are still flying around Washington like customs forms in a typhoon. Think chips, think cranes, think aircraft, think trucks and truck parts. For many countries in Asia now, including allies such as Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and Singapore, these sectoral tariffs are likely to cause far more economic damage than reciprocal tariffs. And let's just think about that in geopolitical terms. While China brings flowers, the US threatens a sledgehammer. Now what sort of date would you want to go on? But let's also note here there's a big rider with all of this. The so called taco trade as Wall street has been calling it. Trump always chickens out. Trump himself said the August 1st deadline is, and I quote, firm, but not 100% so clear as mud.
Obviously, this isn't helping shippers, carriers or intermediaries. What happens in the coming weeks, we don't really know. And of course, this is playing out across container shipping markets, which have looked like the proverbial roller coaster since April 2nd.
This, as Emma is clearest. On the Trans Pacific trades from Asia to the US since Liberation Day, rates have ebbed and flowed in sync with every tariff deadline. And there's been a few tariff moratoriums, of course, spark a big surge in volumes and rates right through most of May and June. But now, as those truces are winding down, rates have slumped again. This drop is visible across both trades from China to the US east coast and from China to the US West Coast.
Clearly, no one wants to be caught clearing customs the day tariffs snap back in.
So how have carriers handled this madness? A year ago, my first guest said this. We're trying to flip the whole thing around and say, how can we actually provide a better product to customers?
But has that been possible?
Thorsten Hartman, senior Director of Trade Management for the Transpacific Ethag Lloyd. Welcome back to the Freight Buyers Club.
[00:04:36] Speaker D: Thank you very much, Mike. I'm happy to be back here.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: You're very kind. You're very kind. Torsten, did you have any kind of 2025 plan that included coping with all this regulatory chaos that was seen, particularly on the trade that you manage?
[00:04:51] Speaker D: I must say, from the outset of the year, we were very focused on making the Gemini launch a success.
So we did not quite see the chaos that we eventually ran into when it came to the tariffs and so on. So that was an added challenge we had to cope with as we also went along to launch the Gemini Network.
[00:05:13] Speaker C: The Gemini Network, obviously with Maersk. According to Blue Spark analysis using C intelligence data, the Gemini cooperation hit 90.9% reliability. The latest figures, that is now, that's a 20 to 35 point lead over the rest of the market.
How did you manage that in the current climate?
[00:05:34] Speaker D: I think, in short, discipline. Discipline was really key to achieving this. So operational discipline in terms of designing the network, the speeds, the ports we call, how many moves do we have in each port, full empty, restores, and then not least, staying true to sticking to that plan. Do not deviate from the plan, do not run into where commercially we want to do something different. Just stay to the plan and we will see that the results are coming. And this is exactly what happened is that we were very determined to make it work and discipline basically took us to where we are today.
[00:06:14] Speaker C: How has that played out in terms of customers? Have you won new ones?
[00:06:17] Speaker D: Yeah, I would say many, many customers, they run their own little mini studies on what reliability is for the carriers that they are using and we can definitely see that they're paying attention to this. So when I meet customers today, we can see that we are moving up the rankings in their charts and they can see a real difference. And of course for many of them, this is what they've been looking for for a long time to get some reliability into their supply chain. And this is exactly what we're delivering now. So I would say we get very, very good feedback from customers on us being able to achieve this.
[00:06:50] Speaker C: I'll just explain the transpacific trade for anyone who's listening. Maybe doesn't follow exactly how that works. It's not the same as all the container trades. Most of it is conducted under long term contracts. Most of those contracts are sound round about May, June. Now May, June this year will certainly a volatile period, but also spot rates were soaring at this point because this is right in the middle of these tariff truces. So everyone's front loading Cargo into the U.S.
is this going to come through in terms of the contract like rate levels that you were able to agree with your shipper customers?
[00:07:23] Speaker D: I think when most of the contracted discussions took place in January, February, March, before really most of the cares came out and we had to deal with that, I would say we got some healthy increases on the long term rates. Not so much on the back of the tariffs, but more on the back of that our cost has increased to a point where we really needed to realize some higher freight rates in order to support the additional cost that we have seen coming from ships and terminal cost and so on.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: I mentioned front loading there. Does that mean the traditional peak season, which is normally September, October, is that even a thing this year? Is that already been and gone? Is that what the rates downturn that we've been seeing since sort of June, is that what that's telling us?
[00:08:10] Speaker D: I think definitely the issue right now in the market is a lower demand scenario. So it's not an oversupply scenario that we may have seen for many times in the past, but it's really a lower demand that we have seen that the demands from customers is significantly less than what they were telling us at the point of contracting. And therefore of course we are shipping lines, we have deployed capacity in order to meet that demand and that demand is not there. And the feedback we have from customers is that this is not likely to resume in the short term. So we thinking we're probably going to get into fourth quarter before we will see a resumption to normal ordering.
I think also some of the customers, they still have the COVID times clear in mind that where many of them they kind of over purchased stuff that either went out of season before they could sell it or it simply took up space in their warehouses and added additional cost. And I think they're much more shrewd these days and perhaps learning the lessons from that time that they will not do the same mistake again and therefore are very cautious on how much they order at this point in time.
[00:09:15] Speaker C: So they're worrying about over ordering and being stuck with a whole load of inventory. And that's a bigger worry than the fear of tariffs. Or maybe they're betting that tariffs might not last too long and there could be. I mentioned Taco before you came on.
Maybe there'll be another deal cut. What are you doing in capacity in relation to that then? Are we looking at more blanks? Are you cutting? Are you redeploying?
[00:09:39] Speaker D: We will stay true to the thing that we also done earlier in the year is that if we see a slower demand we will not blank sailings like most competition they do. We will simply still sail the network but we will find smaller ships to replace some of the bigger ships. So we still offer the weekly service to customers but at the same time we reduce capacity by deploying smaller ships.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Just on port congestion. We've seen a fair bit of Asian load port and at US terminals this year. What's the situation at the moment?
[00:10:09] Speaker D: I think the situation is much better than what we've seen in the past, partly due to volumes being lower than they were at the same times last year.
So we don't see any significant issues neither in Asia nor in North America aside from the normal weather related issues when you have hurricanes and typhoons and so on. But from a structural point of view we don't see any major issues at this point in time.
[00:10:34] Speaker C: So Q3 is going to be quiet. You're hopeful about Q4 and 2026. What's your outlook for there? Or is it just a case of wait and see, too much uncertainty?
[00:10:44] Speaker D: I think it's a little bit of case and wait and see. I mean the terrorists, we may think that we know what will happen but as you pointed out before we. We may be wrong. I think the bigger concern with customers is that their outlook on the US Economy has certainly changed over the last few months. I think they're far less optimistic about demand from consumers in the US Compared to what they were a few months back. So I think tariffs is definitely still an issue, but I think equally so is that they're worried about that the US Economy is, is maybe heading into a, a slower piece.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: Last year, Torsten, you told the Freight Buyers Club that we're always looking for investment opportunities.
So a year on any progress, especially.
[00:11:28] Speaker D: In the Americas, I mean, we're definitely still looking for opportunities. They're not so easy to come by in a, in, in a big mature market like North America. Our terminal company is still looking for opportunities and if they present themselves, we are certainly very eager to be able to invest into something that will help us to, to grow for the future.
[00:11:47] Speaker C: Boston Hartman, thanks very much for coming on the French Buyers Club again once more.
[00:11:51] Speaker D: Thank you so much, Mike, and hope to be back soon again.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: Now to the newsroom. Well, first a message from our sponsor.
[00:11:59] Speaker A: This podcast is proudly produced in partnership with Demerco Express Group, a trusted provider of global shipping and contract logistics services in Asia, Europe and North America. DeMurco's particular strength is in Asia, where it gives shippers the freight capacity and local market expertise to streamline freight movements to and from the region, particularly, particularly for Trans Pacific lanes. With 130 forwarding and logistics locations across China, India and Southeast Asia, Demurco connects Asia with the world like no other global3PL. You are listening to the Freight Buyers Club.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Welcome back. Ed Winlopez is managing editor. Industry Dive and Supply chain dive. Edwin, thanks for coming back on the Freight Buyers Club.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Thanks for inviting me, Mike.
[00:12:45] Speaker C: Edwin so it's been an interesting year.
You've been covering all this chaos, tariffs, u turns, policy drama. What's it been like running a news desk through this?
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I mean it's been tough, right? I think in the crisis moments it's always really hard because you want to do your best job and help all your readers and help everyone and you also got to take care of yourself and your team.
But listen, it's been really helpful to us because right now it's a moment where people need answers. So we've been really, really focusing on service journalism and just helping give people clarity and it helps to get that perspective to say right now the world needs journalists. The world needs people that can help unpack. And if we stay in our lane and we focus on the nitty Gritty questions that our readers have.
We'll be able to do more good overall and I think that helps power us through to do the best job possible.
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I've been covering this a long time and it's our industry.
I can't remember a time where things have changed so quickly.
Caught you out of step so rapidly. Even at weekends, entire policy changes with no sort of lead up time. Seemingly. In terms of your coverage, what sort of sense are you getting about the real world impact on supply chains for US Shippers and for other people involved in international supply chains?
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, tariffs are a big topic. Right. And still today we're six months in there. There is a big debate on how much higher costs there are. But there's no doubt that there are higher costs, at least from a company level.
[00:14:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: You know, every, every good that's being imported is facing one sort of tariff and another, there's compliance costs.
Industries like the automotive industry are particularly effective.
And this uncertainty overall, I think it's adding a lot of hidden costs. And you know, Mike, you've been around long enough, you know that supply chains run best when they can accurately forecast supply and demand.
And while over the past few years supply chain managers have gotten really good at managing black swan events like this, I mean, I liken this to the start of the Red Sea crisis. Right. Or the pandemic.
Even though they've gotten really good at managing uncertain times.
That volatility, that inability to know whether a tariff threat is real or just a negotiating tactic, whether the things that you're planning three months from now will stick or not, that adds a lot of volatility into the system.
You're having to carry a lot more inventory maybe than you were used to. You might be having to rush goods into the country that you may not have before.
So it's just uncertainty all over. And everyone's navigating. Until now they've been navigating fairly well. But every month this goes on. Right. It's harder.
[00:15:50] Speaker C: And I guess some of the transport operators, they must be worried about possible lower, lower demand later in the year.
We've just heard from Torsten there. There's been a big spike in shipping demand in June, July, but it's likely to fall off. That that filters through the domestic transport system as well, doesn't it?
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. Right. As a carrier, there's a lot of volume coming into the country right now. And certainly. Right. There's been key dates. You know, first it was March 4th and you saw a lot of Volume rush in from Canada and Mexico and then it was April 2nd for the world on April 9th. Right. And you started people seeing people rush in from around the world. Now that extends to July 9, now August 1. So there's been a wave after wave after wave of front loading is what we're calling it.
The question is, well, does that mean peak season came early? Will there be a crater of volume on the other side? And we don't know. It's entirely possible that maybe this is just a really great year on all accounts. I think a lot of people doubt that, but certainly carriers are taking advantage right now. Worried for the future?
[00:16:58] Speaker C: No, I think it's very interesting that there's a lack of visibility to a degree on what individual shippers have done.
How much, how big are those inventory levels or how. I'm sure some out there are probably gambling that maybe some of these tariffs won't end up happening or they'll be at lower levels, affordable levels. So it wasn't worth risking having the possibility of overstocking. But if we'll just switch topics slightly, if we can pivot the one big beautiful bill act, this is signed 4th of July.
What are the biggest freight impact elements that you've been covering?
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean the headline for the corporate world is pretty much the same, Right. Is that the 2017 tax cuts were extended and there were some significant tweaks that include effects that will happen for carriers. Right. And I'm talking, for example, about the trucking carrier. There are things like changes to better benefits for depreciation and estate taxes. So if you're a trucking provider that is looking, you know, to potentially pass on your business to the next generation. Right. There's a little bit better long term planning for that. But there are also a lot, I think from a supply chain standpoint, a lot of resistance for a lot of industrial policy programs that were started under previous administrations. Things like the tax credit incentivizing consumers to buy electric vehicles. That's being phased out faster than usual. Right. Clean energy supply chains overall, they took a big hit and you know, all the way down to the electricity generators, the utilities. A lot of their tax cuts have been effort. So you can expect changes in the clean energy supply chain. Right. Because it's, as you mentioned earlier, there's been a U turn in policy from that.
Beyond that. Right. It's. It's a 904 page document. There are a lot of impacts that we're still digging into, but those are some of the highlights. Oh, and de minimis Right. That, that is probably the biggest one for supply chains.
[00:18:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll just clarify that for, for our listeners. So early this year, the $800 de minimis exemption for Chinese goods that was thrown away.
Now what we know from the big beautiful act is from July 2027, US imports from anywhere around the world will also. The de minimis extension will be gone for them as well. What does that mean for shippers, consumers for these e tailing platforms?
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And it extends beyond detailing, though. There's certainly the most impacted. Right. I know automotive suppliers that use the minimus to bring in a few goods at a time for parts and repairs for their maintenance equipment and whatnot. But certainly the minimis will end as of 2027. Right. And it really means that supply chains that relied on it as a business model, they will have to change too.
Fortunately, or maybe silver lining in a way is that the writing has been on the wall for over a year now. So people have started already to look at what that new model should look like and hopefully start to plan ahead of 2027.
Our senior reporter, Matt Scarland, for example, he's covered that some companies are already exploring alternatives such as using other custom provisions that maybe give benefits for imports under 2500 rather than 800. Right. Or using ocean over air to bring in more goods at once to get that cost benefit that you may lose from customs clearance and setting up a local fulfillment model to go with it. So more traditional models for sure. We're watching how individual companies respond, especially the big E tailers. And we're also watching how companies like Shane and Temu respond. Right. Which were some of the bigger Chinese companies that were benefiting from the de minimis policies.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: Yeah, they're ones to watch for sure. They've been big drivers of the air cargo market the last couple of years. Just back to the domestic freight markets in the US how are they trucking, the warehouse, the intermodal sectors? Are they feeling the heat from all of this disruption or are they just waiting to see how things play out?
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Absolutely feeling the heat.
But it's, it's a little ironic actually, because of the aspect that we discussed earlier. The front loading that has been going on has inflated volumes a little bit domestically or across the United States. Right. When you have a surge in cargo volumes at ports that needs to be moved into warehouses across the country to its, you know, semi final destination for storage. Right. So there's certainly a, there's a volume impact that's going on there for both trucking Carriers and warehouse providers. On the other hand, as we talked about earlier, right. People are concerned about what happens post August, what happens in September, what happens this holiday season. Is it going to be slower than usual right now? Trucking companies, that should be said, they've been in a freight recession for many years now. Right. And so part of the impact that we're seeing is that, you know, there's been a lot of pressures pushing people to exit trucking, you know, to lower the overall supply.
This might be the final straw for more trucking companies. And that's certainly something we're watching as well.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Let's finish with a developing story, Edwin. The Wall Street Journal reports that Union Pacific may acquire Norfolk Southern railroad, forming a $200 billion coast to coast rail giant.
Now, there's no official confirmation unless it's broke today. I'm a surface transportation board would have to approve it. Could this be the start of another major wave in US Rail? Because one, if it goes through, that is because one major in the past at least has tended to prompt more majors.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a fun question, Mike.
Maybe I would reframe it a little bit. Right. I don't know. But if it is part of a wave, I would say that that wave already started.
And it started a few years ago when Canadian Pacific acquired Kansas City Southern.
That deal marked a sea change as it was the First Class One merger, the First Class One acquisition that has happened since the 1990s. So my guess would be the fact that that cleared regulators may have emboldened other railroads to explore a major deal like this.
On the flip side, I do think the regulatory question is big because it's important to remember that Canadian national, CP's rival was the one that tried to acquire Kansas City Southern and failed in part because of regulatory concerns. So the regulatory question is big.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: If the deal goes through, what would a more consolidated system mean for shippers in theory?
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Well, I think let's start here.
Shippers are looking for good railroad partners. They want good rates, good routes, timely service, a solid way to dispute charges and cargo visibility.
I imagine that what the railroads will argue is that consolidation is what's needed to offer a better product. That's the allure of a transcontinental railroad. Right. Imagine or picture the possibility of sending a container from Los Angeles to Alabama without ever having to change service providers. Right. You know, beyond your first mile and last mile trucking provider. And consequently, if that were to happen, if you really have one railroad that can service all of the United States, imagine how Contract talks may change if a big shipper has the option of putting all of their volume onto a single railroad. Now they probably won't, but that will be part of the conversation if that were to go through. It's all about volumes and rates. But the counterpoint is that a more consolidated system means there are fewer options to negotiate with.
So some will argue that a merger would inevitably decrease competition and therefore harm shippers ability to get good service. So it really does all come down to antitrust. If a merger is proposed, regulators will have a very complicated case to review.
And railroads, it's on them to convince them that the shippers will benefit, not suffer from the proposal.
[00:25:22] Speaker C: So plenty to play for. Edwin Lopez, managing editor of Industry Dive. Thanks for joining me once more on the Freight Buyers Club.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: Thanks so much, Mike.
[00:25:31] Speaker C: And now someone living this every day. Susan Williams runs Callaloo Inc. A long time SME importer. Susan, just tell us briefly about your business and particularly focusing on how have you and your customers been affected by tariff policy this year?
[00:25:48] Speaker E: Yes, thank you, Mike. Thank you for having me.
On average, Callaloo brought in 400 containers a year due to extenuating circumstances and tariffs being a major part of it. We've seen our containers drop drastically from the average of 400 a year. 2024 saw us bring in 23840 foot containers so far in the year. This year, the first six months, we've brought in 107 containers. You had asked me where we bring in our containers and I import out of seven countries, Haiti, Honduras, Colombia, India, Indonesia, Philippines, and of course China.
And where did they go? The containers, once they cross the ocean land in U.S. ports, they end up in my warehouse in Jackson, Mississippi.
How have the tariffs affected me? Well, the exact number of tariffs that we paid in the year of 2024 was $435,000.
So far in the first six months of 2025, we have surpassed that number to $445,000.
Now, if trade talks don't deliver and the trend continues, I'm slated to pay by the end of this year, 2025, 800, 900, possibly a million dollars in tariffs.
[00:27:19] Speaker C: I mean, they're big numbers for any business. You're actually a Trump supporter. Are you disappointed in how tariff and trade policy is affecting companies like your own?
[00:27:30] Speaker E: Yes, I am a big I'm a Trump supporter and yes, I'm disappointed. But I think a better word might be frustrated because the speed at which these tariffs happened was so fast, none of us had time to react and also the broad sweeping strokes of the tariffs which sucked us all in and all product lines in when so many of us, the products that we bring in cannot be made in the United States. However, we're still paying tariffs disproportionately, I believe.
So frustration is the word I would use with the tariffs.
I think the tariffs were not intended for my industry, which is the home accessory and decor holiday type company, but they were meant for the automobile industry, pharmaceuticals, energy, big tech. These are the companies in the US that were importing a lot more than they were exporting, creating the giant trade deficit that the US Was experiencing.
So I know that we were not the target of these tariffs. That's why it's so frustrating. Am I still a Trump supporter?
Yes. And why is that? Trump is right. He's right in his theory to try to balance out the trade with the rest of the countries of the world.
So I get it and I see, I understand where he's coming from. But those of us in my industry who are experiencing such large tariffs, it is not sustainable.
However, I have a solution.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Please, please tell us what that solution is. Susan?
[00:29:24] Speaker E: Yes, the employee profit share tax credit. And what this is in simple terms is if you are an import company in my industry where you cannot make your products, in any other country, you would offer your employees 10% of your net profits. And if you do that, you will receive 90% of your tariff money back at the end of the year.
Now, the plan is so simple that it's kind of hard to get your wrap your mind around it. But how would this work?
At the end of the year, the tariff monies that we have paid has remained in the treasury for a solid year. The treasury has made interest on it.
The government will see that my company paid 10% of my net profits to my employees.
Therefore my employees go out into the economy and spend it. It is a win win for everybody. The tariffs stay in place as they are.
Tariffs are a complicated process. They go up one day, down the next day. It's hit with this country, hit with that country.
They're very complicated.
Our bill of ladings read like a science project when they come in because sometimes you're tariffed on aluminum, sometimes you're tariffed on glass.
A percentage of this product may be part iron, so you're only taxed on that part. So it's very complicated. But my plan is simple because it's at the end of the year, you see the total amount of tariffs that you paid. And that is so easily accessible.
On the U.S. customs website, you can see how much tariffs you paid at the end of the year. You don't have to be involved with all the intricacies of how those tariffs came about. You just see the grand total.
Then when I proved to the government that I gave 10% of my net profits to my employees through payroll reports, I should receive 90% of my tariff money back because I gave my profits to my employees to go out to the economy and spend it. So imagine the power that has. If all the companies in my industry is large, it's tens of thousands of companies strong, we employ millions of people.
Imagine if all of us gave 10% of our net profits to our employees and they went out into the economy and spent it. That is a recipe for, for runaway economic growth.
And companies like me that do that should be rewarded for that. It's a win win, like I said, for everybody. It's a win for Trump. He gets to keep his tariffs in place, using them as a tool to negotiate his agreements with countries around the world. It's a win win for our employees who get big checks at the end of the year.
It's a win win for us, the U.S. american company.
And of course, more importantly, it is a giant win for our economy.
[00:32:38] Speaker C: Susan? Yeah. I've got so much sympathy for you for dealing with these higher bills, but I think what you are doing here is probably indicative of why the US Economy has been so successful for so many years, because not only are you frustrated, you're actually doing something about it. And I wish you all the best of luck in the world with that. How, what sort of progress have you made or what sort of support have you garnered so far in pushing this, this solution?
[00:33:07] Speaker E: So I have, I have taught and emailed everybody that I can think of that is in my industry and the government, the people involved with tariffs. I began with my industry heads. I've spoken with CEOs of companies like mine so they can get the word out to their government officials, their senators and congressmen. I have spoken with journalists. One of my greatest accomplishments thus far is that I emailed Stephen Moore. I don't know if you know who he is, but Stephen Moore was a head economist during Trump's first, first term.
And today he is a Paris.
[00:33:54] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:33:54] Speaker E: Yeah, he's a major contributor on a, on a business channel in the US I emailed him. I was listening to him on TV one day and I emailed him and I told him about my plan.
Ten minutes later, he emailed me back. Stephen Moore and Said sue, this is a great idea. I'm forwarding it to the treasury.
So I'm super excited about that. Obviously, I've emailed my plan and my catalog. I've introduced myself to the Treasury. Where that ends up, I don't know. I'm sure they receive thousands of mail and information a day and I probably am getting lost in the shuffle. But I push and push. Every day I sit in front of the TV and watch business channels with a notepad and I write people's names down that mention the word tariff and I email them.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: I was in. What can all the people do if they support your aims?
[00:34:54] Speaker E: So what people can do in my industry is contact their senators and their congressmen, see if they can get anywhere. I had great success with finally reaching one of my senators, Cindy Hyde Smith, our senator from the great state of Mississippi. That's where my company is located. I employ 100 hardworking Mississippians and she was very interested in how we keep these people employed. They receive health care, they receive 401k, and yes, they receive profit sharing. I've already been sharing profits with my employees for two decades and when I explained that to her, she wants to help Mississippians.
So I had a great 30 minute conversation with her on the phone and when she said to me, we need Scott Bessant in this meeting and of course Scott Bessant is the Secretary of the treasury for the United States, well, my heart skipped a beat. I said to her, if we could do that, that is my end goal.
If somebody could get me in front of Scott Besant so I could explain this plan. I am sure Trump would love this because it helps us, the American company.
[00:36:10] Speaker C: And I'm sure if you get that opportunity, you'll put your views and your plans forward in a clear and forthright manner, very much as you have done today. And I wish you all the best of luck with it. Susan Williams, thanks for your insight and.
[00:36:23] Speaker E: Thank you, Mike, so much for having me on your podcast.
I saw you, I did some investigation on podcast and saw you and I thought this is a podcast I need to be on and you replied to me almost immediately and invited me to be here. I thank you. This is another leg up for me and I hope something comes of it.
[00:36:46] Speaker C: You're very welcome. All the best.
[00:36:48] Speaker E: Thank you, mate.
[00:36:49] Speaker C: That's it for today's episode. If you've enjoyed it, please do, like subscribe and follow. Big thanks to and in no particular order, Torsten Hartman, Hapai Bloyd, Edwin Lopez from Industry Dive, Susan Williams at Callaloo. Karen Ball and Tom Matthews rule their production gal and skill. And thanks again to the America Express group for their support. We'll be back soon. And my king, cheers for listening to the Freight Buyers Club.
